User talk:Bawitdaba

Hello

If you were wondering who those 2 IPs were, they were both me, as I am usually the only one around here who says random silly shit, like "Anananai", or something like that. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) 21:49, August 25, 2022 (UTC)

@DarkMatterMan4500: Okay gotcha, thank you for informing me. Do you play Sega stuff? I grew up on some Sonic (less than Mario though) & a bit of Super Monkey Ball as well. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:54, August 25, 2022 (UTC)

@Bawitdaba: Why yes. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) 13:58, August 27, 2022 (UTC)

Also, for some reason, I am unable to import anything, even if I am an admin here. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) 15:20, August 27, 2022 (UTC)

@DarkMatterMan4500: I disabled import permissions as I'd prefer things be added manually (like instead of importing Wikipedia sockpuppet templates we can use the ones I customized. What was it that you wanted to add? Bawitdaba (talk) 15:27, August 27, 2022 (UTC)

@Bawitdaba: Ah, I see. --DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) 15:28, August 27, 2022 (UTC)

For instance we already have {{sockpuppet}} and {{sockpuppeteer}} on the wiki -- the two that I customized for Miraheze Gaming Services and possibly other wikis outside of it. Bawitdaba (talk) 15:29, August 27, 2022 (UTC)

Decyclopedia

decyclopedia.miraheze.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:b1b8:bf00:c089:2c89:9373:cbc4 (talk • contribs)

Page talk

Hi, do you think the tomato sauce can robots are cool? MontyMoleLoreMaster2 (talk) 23:03, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah Bawitdaba (talk) 23:03, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Cool, do you mind helping expand the information and adding more images? You can find good images in the Polish Sonic Wiki for some reason (though is it cool if you get an image from their appearance in "Lair on Lockdown" since it isn’t on either of the wikis). MontyMoleLoreMaster2 (talk) 23:07, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's outside my field of expertise (I only watched a bit of Sonic Boom several years ago). And yea I was told the Polish Sonic wiki at one point had more Mario & Sonic coverage Bawitdaba (talk) 23:10, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Oh ok, should I make a page on Madmole next? Also you are cool with getting more images (since a lot of them are on the Polish wiki)? MontyMoleLoreMaster2 (talk) 23:12, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah go ahead and make a page on Madmole. Mind linking the images btw? Bawitdaba (talk) 23:13, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

The Polish wiki has a lot of good images to use: https://sonic.fandom.com/pl/wiki/Sos_pomidorowy_Doktora_Eggmana/Galeria MontyMoleLoreMaster2 (talk) 23:15, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

We can add some but not all those images, as I have stated that episode image galleries (at least without captions) are not allowed (fair use-related reasons -- just believe me on this -- spongebobwiki.org needed to have all of its 200-image episode galleries purged before switching hosts). What I mean is, for an article, a gallery section with some images is ok, but not like hundreds of images without captions. Bawitdaba (talk) 23:28, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

I meant like the notable images and not every single image, if that is understandable. Also, like my page for the Scrapheap Bot? Oh also, sorry I forgot to mention this but a lot of the stuff was taken from Sonic News Network if that is ok with you. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:32, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Yes that's fine (just give credit). Bawitdaba (talk) 23:33, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Also yes, the notable images are fine. You can download images on Fandom as WEBP and use this to convert them to PNG. Bawitdaba (talk) 23:35, October 27, 2022 (UTC)

Are you cool with helping out with adding the images (for the pages I created so far)? Anyways, what image should I use as the main image for Madmole’s page (maybe their Sonic 3&K artwork)? Also, should the Flying Battery Madmoles get their own page or be grouped with the regular Madmoles? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:03, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Flying Battery Madmoles get their own page, yes. And the main image should probably be artwork of their latest appearance. Also, would it be fine if I declined retrieving some images (at least for the time being)? I'd need to become a bit better versed in that material. You may add the important images though Bawitdaba (talk) 00:24, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

How about those two pages can get their images added later? Also, are any of the other mole badniks from the series ever been confirmed to be related to Madmole? Also, the only Madmole artwork I know is their Sonic 3 & Knuckles artwork so you know any other artwork of Madmole? Also, mind adding more Madmole images when I finish the page? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:33, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Some other time we can possibly do images for those two pages. Meantime, add {{more images}}. Also, use that S3&K art. and yeah i could possibly add some Madmole images (i still need to get to Yoshi Crafted World sometime) Bawitdaba (talk) 00:36, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Are Mogu and Minimole related to Madmole or no? They do have similar designs and Japanese names so that is why I asked. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:06, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

I'd say so, yeah Bawitdaba (talk) 01:48, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Would they be like relatives to Madmole? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:30, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah Bawitdaba (talk) 02:31, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Don't both of them also have similar attack patterns to Madmole and even are in similar looking holes? Also, should any character appearances in other media be put in the same page (like with the Super Mario Wiki and MarioPedia), with the exceptions of if they are heavily redesigned to warrant their own page (like the Crab Bots for example)? Also is the Encylo-speed-ia reliable? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:35, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah it can be on the same page unless it get too long (in which case we can have a go at making a subpage). I also think they're relatives to Madmole, yes. I would treat Encylo-speed-ia as reliable -- an official source is an official source (SMB Encyclopedia was said to be unreliable by many, yet you guys see it as reliable). On wikis that I run i state "if it's official it should be treated as such." Official sources do make mistakes, which can be acknowledged as such. In short i don't want wikis that i run (HMfan chiefly runs Mariopedia, not me) to be a debate of which official sources are reliable and which aren't -- it's almost like asking what's canon and what isn't. If it's official, go right ahead Bawitdaba (talk) 02:47, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

So can we treat most pieces of official Sonic media as a part of the same universe and not split every single page for a character who appeared in another piece of media? Anyways, what enemy or boss should I make a page on next (note, I am not doing main cast enemies or bosses if that is fine with you). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:12, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Well it depends. For instance, in Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic is clearly separate from the modern Sonic, but we wouldn't cover the Genesis titles only on the classic sonic article -- same with how we wouldn't cover Zelda Wind Waker on Toon Link article (instead on Link article) -- because those are specific characters separately created based on the main character's original appearance (in this case Classic Sonic being created from Sonic). Also, I'd say you go ahead create more mole pages :P Bawitdaba (talk) 03:19, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Should I make the next page be Mogu or Minimole? Also, mind making a group infobox cause I wanted to put the sentient Appliances in that category? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:22, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

You choose the next. And sure I can do that Bawitdaba (talk) 11:17, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Any other mole badniks that are related to Madmole? Like would similar Japanese names count? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:51, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

I can't think of any right now. And I'd say that could be a possible indicator, yeah Bawitdaba (talk) 21:54, October 28, 2022 (UTC)

Mind helping get an image of Monty Mole in Mario & Sonic at the 2012 London Olympic Games? Also, are Burrobot, Grounder, and the mole from Sonic Colors meant to be related to Madmole or no? Mind helping to find out? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 15:36, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Also, if they are Badniks, I'd put them under relatives on the basis that they all share a common trait of being mole-based Badniks. Bawitdaba (talk) 16:31, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Was Big Squeeze intentionally made to be related to the Laser Prison from Sonic Mania? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 19:47, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Not sure Bawitdaba (talk) 19:49, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Badniks

Any confirmed times where badniks were considered a part of the same line? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:29, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Also unsure Bawitdaba (talk) 20:35, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Mind checking? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:39, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what you're trying to request here Bawitdaba (talk) 20:40, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

I was just wondering if any badniks have full hard proof on them being a part of the same species as another badnik? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:49, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

This I am unsure of, and I don't know how we'd be able to discover that for ourselves, as it appears to be based on context. Bawitdaba (talk) 20:53, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

What about with Madmole? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:03, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Same -- similar to Monty Mole, you know more on Madmole than I do, as you spend all the time researching mole enemies. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:08, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Oh, anyways what page should be made next? How about Spike Bonker since they have a good role in Sonic the Comic? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:12, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Sure Bawitdaba (talk) 21:17, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Mind if you make the page? I am kind of tired right now. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:23, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

I'm also tired. I need to see a friend soon, but I'll see what I can do. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:25, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Ok. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:28, October 29, 2022 (UTC)

Wanna make more pages for Badniks? If so, which badnik should we make a page on right now? Also, a Sonic tweet confirmed that every piece of official media is canon. What do you think about that? Also Motobug canonically said "Fuck off Sonic" along with a weirdly muscular Burrobot.

Perhaps Bawitdaba (talk) 01:38, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

What badnik should get a page first? Also liked my idea on making this wiki making everything more connected since the Sonic News Networks splits pages from other media? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:43, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Probably do Buzz Bomber first. Yeah, though splitting/same article depends on if the subjects are the same (e.g. Buzz Bombers in games and comics deserve same article), different -- or even the same subject, just from a different standpoint.

By the way, regarding how long Mariopedia has been down, Miraheze is going to improve backup strategy in the future (they made a statement here) so that these errors don't happen again. They still trying to recover data, and have sent the affected drives over to professionals to assist in recovering the data. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:52, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Good idea. I was thinking like if they had a different design or name in another piece of media they could get a different page (like the Bee Bots in Sonic Boom). But if they have the same name and stuff, they can just be put in the Buzz Bomber page. Also it is cool that Mariopedia will become more secure once it is recovered. Oh and also, are you cool with making a Crabmeat page as well? Also, you agree with Sega’s statement on everything being canon? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:58, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Again, it depends if Bee Bots are explicitly the same or not. And yes, Miraheze will make Mariopedia more secure. I could possibly do Crabmeat, yes. And yeah, even if there's retcons and contradictory information, it's still "canon" -- as I think of it in terms of "official but told through different storylines". Bawitdaba (talk) 02:02, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Kind of like the other pieces of official Mario media (though not as simple)? Also for Bee Bots and Crab Bots, they were called Buzz Bombers and Crabmeats in Sonic Dash 2, but considering their different designs and names it seems like they are just variants of those Badniks rather than the exact same (though Motobug in Sonic Boom is the same as the game counterpart). Although interesting, the Bee Bots kind of resemble Buzzers as well. Also, I was wondering if Burrobots and Grounders were ever made to be Mole Badniks or just miners? Also, are they related to other mole Badniks like Madmole? Speaking of Grounder, I think the one from TAoStH could have his own page since he is a notable character and not just a generic Grounder. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:06, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Burrobot's Japanese name has mogura in it, so I'd say they are actual mole Badniks. Grounders don't appear to be mole-based, though their traits are def comparable to Burrobot's. Yes it can have its own page. I'm going to sleep now by the way, I'm very tired. Bawitdaba (talk) 02:10, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Wanna make the Crabmeat and Burrobot page now? Also is Burrobot meant to be related to Madmole or no? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:27, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing Bawitdaba (talk) 19:14, November 25, 2022 (UTC)

You think Shellcrackers are a relative to Crabmeats, since they both appear in a Sonic Frontiers prologue comic together? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:45, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Yea -- I'm busy making article Bawitdaba (talk) 04:03, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for making the Burrobot and Crabmeat pages, but do any of the other badniks listed as relatives of Crabmeat have any connections to Crabmeat at all? Also, for the other pieces of media sections, you could just copy the info from the wiki and just say the issue the info came from rather than it being sources. Good idea? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:15, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome. For other media, yes those section have construction tag listed (means I have to still get to them some time). They're listed as relatives based on fact that they are also crab-based Badniks. Bawitdaba (talk) 09:23, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Also could the giant Burrobot from Archie issue 3 get their own page? They seem to be an enlarged variant. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 16:02, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Go ahead and create it if you'd like Bawitdaba (talk) 16:03, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Ok I will make it later. Also how do you know those other crab Badniks are relatives (besides Shellcracker since we already know) besides them being crab Badniks? Big Chaser does look and function nothing like Crabmeat. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 16:25, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

It's simple -- because they're all Badniks and are based on crabs. Parallel to how organic crustaceans (crabs). Bawitdaba (talk) 16:33, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

I was just thinking that since we don’t consider most other mole species in Mario to be Monty Mole species (unless they’re explicitly say they are). Also what do you think of Gun Beatle’s relation with Gun Hawk? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 16:46, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

yes, but Badniks are specific creations & there's only one Sonic franchise. Also, yes I think those two are related, though seeing as they're part of a diff series (Beetle and Hawk respectively) might put them under comparable. This stuff gets complicated at times & sometimes feels arbitrary, which I try to avoid with wikis Bawitdaba (talk) 16:50, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Ok, anyways continue the great work. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:05, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

For sure I will :) Bawitdaba (talk) 17:06, November 26, 2022 (UTC)

Wanna help with expanding the appearances in other media section in the Crabmeat and Burrobot page? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:59, November 27, 2022 (UTC)

Possibly -- they have construction tags for that reason Bawitdaba (talk) 13:10, November 27, 2022 (UTC)

Also, the other Mario & Sonic games don’t have Monty Mole besides the London Wii one right? I am pretty sure that even the 3Ds version of that game doesn’t have Monty Mole. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:39, November 27, 2022 (UTC)

Oh and also, anyway to contract the person who uploaded the Super Mario-kun scans? I wanted to ask them a question. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:39, November 27, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah doesn't look like it. And can't you contact them yourself? Bawitdaba (talk) 01:25, November 28, 2022 (UTC)

I don’t know how. Also, is Mariopedia going to be up on Monday? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 06:44, November 28, 2022 (UTC)

Seems like Cholinga got tired of you (is that true?). If so, he'd prob not respond to queries from me either. They still don't have an ETA for Mariopedia's return (they guessed early this week, though I'm unsure now). Bawitdaba (talk) 12:27, November 28, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah Cholinga said they were tired of doing translations (though they still want to talk about other stuff like Akira Comics which is cool). I did find someone else who wanted to help do translations so that is cool. Anyways, I do hope that the Mariopedia will go back online soon. Should we make a page on Buzz Bomber next since that is your favorite Badnik? Also, liked my quote I added for? Also, I helped expand the character list for early Archie Sonic comics on Sonic News Network, what do you think about the expanded character pages? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:01, November 28, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I can probably get to making Buzz Bomber page next. Yes, thank you for adding the quote. We can do those lists, yes, but not if it's one bullet (e.g. *test) followed under by another bullet (e.g. **test), as it looks like Sonic News Network does that excessively. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:22, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

I read a lot of the early Archie issues and I was wondering if you knew about how poorly Eggman/Robotnik treated Crabmeat? For example, Crabmeat was thrown into a machine that literally killed them in issue 1 and 8, Robotnik made Coconuts kill Crabmeat in issue 2, Robotnik literally made Crabmeat die from his own trap in issue 25, Robotnik commanded Mecha Sonic to murder Crabmeat for no reason in issue 29, among probably some other stuff I forgot. Also why don’t later pieces of media make badniks talk like how they did in the comics? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:43, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

That's sad -- though Crabmeat is a creation of Eggman, I think. I'm not sure why they don't do that. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:44, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Ok true, Crabmeat is a creation of Robotnik. Also, have you read the Sonic comics and looked at the badnik lore in them? Just wondering. Also, why do people have to make most other pieces of media their own separate timeline since isn’t like every piece of official media canon? Anyways, good luck with making the Buzz Bomber page. Also, is Buzzer a relative to Buzz Bomber? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:16, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

I've only read like 2 Sonic comic issues, so this was years ago. Similar to Mario manga, it isn't my field of expertise. Yes, I'd say Buzzers are relatives. Yeah if people do timelines, what I'd say is "storylines," even if there's contradicting events. In the end, it's still fiction. Bawitdaba (talk) 02:38, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

So like all the events from every piece of media is canon even with the constricting info? Also, the Archie comics literally use characters from two of the Sonic cartoons, which kind of proves that they have a connected universe. Also, what is up with some of the Sonic comics acknowledging the fact that they are comics in-universe? Also, do you think the later games got worse and worse in terms of Badnik usage when they started to overuse Egg Pawns (like Sonic Heroes, Rush, Generations, etc), though there are a few exceptions of course. Anyways, good luck with the Buzz Bomber page. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:53, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

I want to stop talking about what's canon and what isn't. In the end of the day, it's storylines. With fictional work, it isn't always consistent, especially with the multitude of different media, developers, authors, publishers, and so forth. No opinion on usage of Badniks. I'm tired right now, so Buzz Bomber may have to wait until tomorrow. Bawitdaba (talk) 03:46, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Oh ok, anyways sorry if that kind of bothered you, I just wanted to discuss what I personally thought. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:53, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

No problem -- I just don't like the word "canon" -- and if they say all official media is canon, doesn't mean the storylines are consistent. One could describe it as "storylines" or "alternate continuities". Bawitdaba (talk) 03:56, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

So like alternate events that are still a part of the series, but aren’t based on any particular game? Also, what is your opinion on how later Sonic games dealt with using Badniks? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:09, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

As I've said, I don't have opinion on the Badniks. And yes, something like that. In other words, tell it from the user perspective of the media (e.g. make sections on games instead of in-universe biography of trying to piece everything together). Bawitdaba (talk) 04:12, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Mariopedia

Will Mariopedia have all of its data restored? I am extremely worried and afraid that all of the hard work I contributed to Mariopedia will be erased with no fault of mine. Please tell me that Mariopedia will ge fully restored. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 19:15, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Well here, Raidarr said Mariopedia is easily recoverable, so I think yes it can come back. They also revised their backup strategy for in case something like this happen again. Also keep in mind I backed up some of your Monty Mole-related pages here. I also made a DB dump of Mariopedia back in July or so, I think I said. Bawitdaba (talk) 19:49, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Oh cool, so Mariopedia will go back online again soon? Also, should that customized Burrobot in issue 1 of Archie Sonic get their own page? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:50, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Sure, but i'll need you to create it as i won't know what to do. As for Mariopedia I wish Miraheze had an ETA, but some way or another i'm going to try and ensure it comes back online. Bawitdaba (talk) 20:54, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I was thinking of creating that Burrobot page anyways. Also no matter how long it takes, Mariopedia will eventually be fully recovered? Also, I do like the Buzz Bomber page you made, but do you mind having Bee Bot being a variant of Buzz Bomber rather than the same badnik? Also, what do you think about my contributions to Sonic News Network? Also, mind merging the appearances of classic forms of the badniks as well (such as their Sonic Mania appearances)? Also, is the Laser Prison a robot? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:40, November 29, 2022 (UTC)

Yea, we'll get it recovered, though i think some data loss may have occurred (definitely not entirely though). Also why a variant of Buzz Bomber? The contributions are decent. Yes I was planning on doing that (doing the base page was already long). I think the Laser Prison is just a form of technology Bawitdaba (talk) 00:57, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

Cool, so not much data from Mariopedia will be lost right? Also what badnik page should we work on next? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:15, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

You choose which is next. And yeah, I doubt much will to be honest. I just wonder what is taking Miraheze a while Bawitdaba (talk) 02:17, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah it is nice to hear that at least 99% of Mariopedia will be recovered. Also I was thinking of making pages on the Gun Beatles and their variants. Also are you writing notes on what to do when Mariopedia comes back online (since HMFan is doing that)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:55, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

Go right ahead and make those pages. :) What is HMfan noting on what to do specifically? I have only been thinking about Yoshipedia and Wariopedia possibly splitting off & not much else Bawitdaba (talk) 02:57, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

I think he meant to like write down good things to do once Mariopedia goes back online (like updating more of the enemy pages and adding more images, etc). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:17, November 30, 2022 (UTC)

Do you think the Spikers from Sonic the Hedgehog 2 are meant to be predecessors to the Spikers from Sonic the Hedgehog 3, as the Sonic the Summer Special called the latter "Spiker 2" which should we name their page that as well? Also what about the Turbo Spikers and the Crushing Spikers (a crusher with spikes on the bottom which was implied to be a badnik in the European Sonic 3 guidebook that is found in Marble Garden Zone)? Are they relatives to the Sonic 2 and 3 Spikers? Also can the Spikers be the next badnik to get a page? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:51, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

You don't have to ask -- if you want to make an article on Spikers, by all means go right ahead. :) They both have drastically different appearances, so I think the "Spiker 2" title in Sonic the Summer Special may have just been for distinguishing the two enemies known as Spiker, as one debuted after the other, Kind of weird that there are two though. :P Bawitdaba (talk) 18:06, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Also the Stay Sonic guidebook actually confirms relations with some Sonic 2 badniks (like Buzzer being an upgraded model of Buzz Bomber and Shellcracker being a biggger better variant of Crabmeat). There are even some weirder connections like the Whisps being considered a miniature relative to Buzzers, the Mashers being considered a freshwater relative of Jaws (strangely not Chopper though), I think it confirms that Grounder is related to Burrobot but the text was blurry on that part so I couldn’t see it, and I think Sonic 2 Spiker is meant to be an Orbinaut variant, but like I said the text was blurry on that part. It also said Rexon was one of the oldest badniks which is surprising to think about since they were all made by Eggman. Here is a video which reviews the guidebook, but sadly the dude just skims past the badnik stuff and some parts are blurry (the badnik stuff starts on page 33 I think). If you can find some better scans we should totally show this to Sonic News Network and also use it to confirm relations to. I wish these same people confirmed relations to Sonic CD and 3&K badniks to since that would be cool. Also we can just list Spiker 2 as a relative rather than a direct variant and also what about Turbo Spiker and Crushing Spiker? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:16, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Yes, we can list as relatives. Strange thing is that the Turbo Spikers look more like the Spikers from Sonic 2 than those in Sonic 3, so i'm unsure which that would be a variant of. Bawitdaba (talk) 20:02, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Also I found better scans of Stay Sonic in the Internet Archive right here. What do you think about the relations it said and tell me what badnik relation was the coolest or weirdest? Also do you mind uploading the pages talking about the Badniks on this wiki? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:08, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Probably not for entire pages as those are legal gray area. Miraheze is hosted in UK, and abides by "fair dealing," slightly more strict than "fair use," but it's just a matter of "don't use more than you need to," or "only use an excerpt of a page that's being talked about within the article". As for relation, I think the Spikers are the weirdest I've seen thus far. Bawitdaba (talk) 21:23, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Should we make a page for Grounder or Spiker (Sonic the Hedgehog 2 or 3) first? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:32, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps both Spikers. I'm bit busy rn (and need to go see a friend soon), so may have to be later before I make the pages Bawitdaba (talk) 21:35, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

Ok fair. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:16, December 3, 2022 (UTC)

I made a massive edit for the Stay Sonic page on Sonic News Network talking about all the cool things it said about badniks, check it out. What do you think of my massive edit? Also what was he coolest thing that Stay Sonic said about the badniks? For me it is probably their explanation on why Grabbers and Spinies are the only badniks in Chemical Plant Zone. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:56, December 4, 2022 (UTC)

Love the edit (aside from it all being packed under a Trivia section), do you want it brought over here too? The Grounder and Burrobot one is probably one of the more interesting ones, as I didn't think of them as an elderly variant. Bawitdaba (talk) 13:05, December 4, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah sure we can bring it all over to here. Wanna make a page for Grounder? Also the AoStH Grounder was referred to as Grounder Bot so can we name his page that? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:34, December 4, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll make it when I get the chance. Bawitdaba (talk) 20:36, December 4, 2022 (UTC)

Ok cool. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:47, December 4, 2022 (UTC)

What do you think this cursed Mole Grounder thing is meant to be? Also are Mashers meant to be a variant of Chopper since the Stay Sonic guidebook only said they were a freshwater relative of Jaws. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:05, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

The book stated that they're a relative, so what make you think it would be a variant? Bawitdaba (talk) 02:07, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

I meant if Masher is meant to be a variant of Chopper or not (since the book only stated them being a relative on Jaws and not mentioning if they are related to Chopper or not). Also should Grounder be the next badnik to get a page? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:24, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

Yeah it can be -- just earlier I was going to add that to my to-do. Also, this wiki doesn't have Pipe Project because pipes are Mario-themed, and I don't know how to make a logo for a Sonic-themed variant. Bawitdaba (talk) 02:47, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

Oh ok. What is your second favorite badnik? Just curious. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:12, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

Caterkiller Bawitdaba (talk) 03:17, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

Ok cool. I was thinking we could make a page for Spikes next, due to them being related to both Moto Bug and Crabmeat. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:17, December 5, 2022 (UTC)

Crabber

What do you think on my Crabber page? Also, you should make a page for the battleship variant of Buzz Bomber from the IDW comics. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:51, December 6, 2022 (UTC)

Oh nice, I hadn't even seen that until now. You did a good job. What's the battleship variant named specifically? Bawitdaba (talk) 22:55, December 6, 2022 (UTC)

I do not know, but I know it appeared in Issue 4 of IDW Sonic and there is coverage on that variant on the Buzz Bomber (IDW) page. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:59, December 6, 2022 (UTC)

Admin role

Hello. I did read your message in my Talk section. Yes, I am interested in an admin role at Sega Wiki, as I have a large experience in doing anonymous edits on multiple pages of Japanese Wikipedia related to Sega and M2-developed stuff. And before Sega Wiki, I was already doing some stuff in Crappy / Awesome Games Wiki as well. I would appreciate it.

HikaruRuru (talk) 05:19, December 10, 2022 (UTC)

Wait you know Japanese? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 07:32, December 10, 2022 (UTC)

Yes, but only for Hiragana and Katakana. I am not very good at remembering Kanji symbols. HikaruRuru (talk) 18:49, December 10, 2022 (UTC)

What about for like Mario manga? Just wondering since it would be nice if you could also help with Japanese stuff on Mariopedia once it gets restored. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:35, December 10, 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but Mario lore is not a point of interest to me. Nothing against Mario himself or the franchise, just not a big fan. HikaruRuru (talk) 00:06, December 11, 2022 (UTC)

Ok thats fair, I have nothing wrong with you not being interested in the Mario series as much as I am (since my favorite species of all time (Monty Mole) is from Mario). You cool with helping translate any Japanese material related to Badniks (like Japanese guidebooks and instruction booklets)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:10, December 11, 2022 (UTC)

Well, I can translate stuff on my own if the Badnik's name is in Hiragana and/or Katakana, but for decoding Kanji, we might need an OCR such as Capture2Text or the Google Translate mobile app and scan it through the monitor. HikaruRuru (talk) 00:24, December 11, 2022 (UTC)

Ok, know any good places to find Sonic guidebooks (English or Japanese)? I know this one REALLY good Sonic guidebook with a ton of Badnik lore. It is called Stay Sonic and it is from the UK. You can find it online here. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:40, December 11, 2022 (UTC)

I also found a lot of Japanese guidebook scans here if you want to help translate them. Also are you from Japan or not (it doesn’t matter either way so no worries). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:50, December 11, 2022 (UTC)

Some questions

You could add some other language names for Badniks, as the European manuals have different language sections. Also, I seen some errors on the Encylo-speed-ia and the book was also disturbed by the same company who infamously made that really bad Mario Encyclopedia. What should we do about that? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:35, December 15, 2022 (UTC)

If there's errors, we can make note of them, but I don't like fifteen notices of "this is an unreliable source" on the articles. Yes, I'm aware of European manuals having those (it's great that they do). Bawitdaba (talk) 04:37, December 15, 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for making the Grounder page, though do you mind helping source Stay Sonic, since it stated that Grounders being a successor to Burrobot? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:20, December 21, 2022 (UTC)

Sure, which page? Bawitdaba (talk) 03:58, December 21, 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, but the page is page 38. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:16, December 21, 2022 (UTC)

Ok got it, thank you Bawitdaba (talk) 05:21, December 21, 2022 (UTC)

No problem, also you should check my recent contributions to SNN, as I helped add more Stay Sonic sources for some pages. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:56, December 21, 2022 (UTC)

Pacifist runs

I was wondering if any of the Mario & Sonic games (that have enemies) are possible to do pacifist? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:14, December 31, 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Bawitdaba (talk) 12:50, December 31, 2022 (UTC)

I mean like if it is possible not to kill an enemy (and since it is a crossover game, that also means that the Mario enemies can’t be killed either)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 15:44, December 31, 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure, probably depends on the event Bawitdaba (talk) 15:46, December 31, 2022 (UTC)

Missile Ganigani

What do you think of the Missile Ganigani page I made and are you cool with helping porting it over to this wiki? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:50, January 9, 2023 (UTC)

Me like, and yes Bawitdaba (talk) 03:25, January 9, 2023 (UTC)

I saw it got deleted just now. Thankfully it's stored on my editing window as I've been working on porting it over. Oh wait, it's back, although still shows it a good idea to back up the pages. Bawitdaba (talk) 03:30, January 9, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, there are a lot of enemies in Sonic Lost World that don’t have pages, you agree that they should have pages? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:54, January 9, 2023 (UTC)

Yes Bawitdaba (talk) 03:55, January 9, 2023 (UTC)

I also had a question regarding what type of badnik parts that three particular scrapniks used. I can link you the kessage wall if you’d like and could you help me figure out what these scrapniks are meant to be?: https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:MontyMoleLoreMaster?threadId=4400000000000181931 MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:29, January 10, 2023 (UTC)

I'm unsure, sorry Bawitdaba (talk) 23:30, January 10, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I felt the same way. Also should we make more Badnik pages? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:50, January 10, 2023 (UTC)

Prob a good idea, yea Bawitdaba (talk) 23:50, January 10, 2023 (UTC)

Cool, you can decide which badnik can get a page next. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:59, January 10, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I'll see. I been doing a whole lot of Mario stuff here (crossover with Sega) but not enough on the Sonic end ironically. Mario was this wiki's first page. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:02, January 11, 2023 (UTC)

Pretty ironic, also if you want to make a page on the battleship variant of Buzz Bomber, it was simply referred to as a "battleship" in IDW issue 4. Yeah I don’t read the comics that much anymore cause IDW (and literally every Sonic comic) makes the "hero" characters absolutely intolerable psychopaths and it just makes me hate characters like Sonic a whole lot more cause of them just doing horrible stuff like it is a sick twisted game and them getting zero punishments cause of them being "the good guys." At least Mario has some morals unlike Sonic. Also, sorry for that rant though, I just hate Sonic as a character. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:06, January 11, 2023 (UTC)

I like Sonic as a character, though it depends on the appearance (if going by your statement). Bawitdaba (talk) 00:12, January 11, 2023 (UTC)

He isn’t that bad in like most of the 2D games, but the games that usually give him his awful personality and also the shows and comics make me really hate Sonic. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:45, January 11, 2023 (UTC)

Mario and Sonic enemy similarities

I was thinking of a section on the Super Mario page that explains the similarities that some Sonic enemies have with Mario enemies (like some sharing the same name like Spiny and Boo, as well as some enemies having similar behaviors to Mario enemies like Madmole having a similar tack pattern to Rocky Wrench for example). Mind starting the section though (I will add more to it overtime)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:01, January 12, 2023 (UTC)

Good idea, though only if these similarities are probable or considerable Bawitdaba (talk) 17:20, January 12, 2023 (UTC)

Ok, can you help start the section though and I add onto it later? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:54, January 12, 2023 (UTC)

I'd have you start seeing as you had the idea first Bawitdaba (talk) 23:13, January 12, 2023 (UTC)

Ok fair, I can help get it started. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:05, January 13, 2023 (UTC)

What do you think on my Camera Badnik page and do you mind helping porting it over to this wiki? Also sorry that I couldn’t get started on the Mario and Sonic enemy similarity stuff just yet. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:58, January 15, 2023 (UTC)

Good work on it, I'll port it over. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:51, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:49, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Also sometime do you mind helping clean up the badnik pages a bit and also expanding the other media appearances as well (which you could just take from the pages used in Sonic News Network). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:55, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah Bawitdaba (talk) 10:55, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Badnik pages

Cool, should we start with Buzz Bomber since they are your favorite. Also SNN says that Bomber One is a notable Buzz Bonber so can we say the same for this wiki? Also, also, can Bee Bot be considered a variant of Buzz Bomber instead of exactly the same as them, since I did the same for Crab Bot? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 19:13, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

I'll decide when to do those Badnik pages. Also, yes you may do that. Bawitdaba (talk) 19:29, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Also, we shouldn’t forget to also include the appearances seen in the classic versions of the badnik pages (especially with Mania). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 19:52, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Yea Bawitdaba (talk) 20:33, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Also wanna help include badnik appearances in Sonic manga that can be found here and here? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 20:40, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

I'm working on the Buzz Bomber page right now per your request. I'll see what I can do Bawitdaba (talk) 20:42, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Also in Archie Sonic issue 226, Boomer literally reprogrammed a Buzz Bomber to become evil and start murdering other Buzz Bombers as well as Caterkillers. The worst part is that this Buzz Bomber was also powered by a Flicky who willingly powered it because they knew that the Buzz Bomber was made to be an evil mindless killing machine. You agree that is pretty dark that Sonic and his friends basically made a Buzz Bomber unwillingly be programmed to kill its own kind? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:07, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Yea that's kind of messed up Bawitdaba (talk) 22:10, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Isn’t this kind of like how the Paper Mario partners have no problem killing their own species with Mario, except 10x worse (since the Buzz Bomber was previously a normal Buzz Bomber who was then unwillingly programmed to start killing their own kind, whereas the Paper Mario partners kind of chose what they did)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:23, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Yea Bawitdaba (talk) 22:24, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

You agree stuff like this makes Sonic and his friends far more psychopathic and unlikeable in the comics (and sometimes the shows) than they are in the games (like I still think Sonic and his friends are still really cruel in the games, but they are far worse in the comics)? Also, after you do work on the Buzz Bomber page, mind expanding the Crabmeat page next? Also can we get more Badnik categories like Object Badniks, Crab Badniks, Bee Badniks, Insect Badniks, Arachnid Badniks, etc (like what we have for Mole Badniks)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:05, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Those definitely are unpleasant traits, yes. Yeah we can have those categories. I could probably do Crabmeat next. Bawitdaba (talk) 23:08, January 16, 2023 (UTC)

Some other dark parts of that same issue was that the Buzz Bomber saved Sonic’s friends (which basically shows that it was nothing but a mindless killing machine that only cared about psychopaths unlike the other badniks). The worst part is that after Eggman rightfully killed the Buzz Bomber for killing its own kind (which is one of the very few times a badnik being destroyed was actually justified), Sally literally thanked the Flicky and said they were very brave for basically making a Buzz Bomber have all of its free will removed and helping the awful psychopaths who killed their own kind by joining in on the badnik destruction. Oh and by the way, the Flicky gets away with literally all the crimes that it made the Buzz Bomber commit. You agree that is very dark and cruel and really dumb how the absolute most evil Sonic characters get away with doing horrible stuff (if you thought that was bad, just look at what the Forty Fathom Freedom Fighters did in issue 185 and getting no punishment for the atrocious act that they committed in that issue. Wanna know what happened in that issue)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:24, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

Not right now thank you Bawitdaba (talk) 01:44, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

Ok, but what about the stuff I said about the evil Buzz Bomber. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:57, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

Also what Sonic Lost World enemy should I make a page on next? Here is a list of all of them (also the preexisting badniks use their Japanese names by the way, as well as the variants of said badniks (like Missile Ganigani being called that instead of Missile Crabmeat for example))? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 07:34, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

What about the Buzz Bombers? Also, you decide which one. Bawitdaba (talk) 12:09, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

I was talking about the long paragraph I said which talked about that really evil Buzz Bomber that Sonic and his friends reprogrammed to become a mindless killing machine. Also what do you think about the question I asked in this edit? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:18, January 17, 2023 (UTC)

I haven't read the Sonic comics proper like how I've played the games, so I'll let you decide on that. Bawitdaba (talk) 00:41, January 18, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah fair, also will Burrobot be the one to get an expanded other appearances in media section next? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:18, January 18, 2023 (UTC)

Yea I was wondering which one would be next, so we can stick with that, sure Bawitdaba (talk) 01:56, January 18, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah good idea. Also I am still confused on if the other pieces of Sonic media are canon or just a part of a separate timeline? I am pretty sure the comics themselves do try to make themselves seem canon but idk. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:19, January 18, 2023 (UTC)

The phrase "separate continuity" should help. Not everything within a fictional franchise has to be connected, which is something that a lot of people seem to struggle with. Bawitdaba (talk) 13:29, January 18, 2023 (UTC)

What do you think about this discovery I made? Also, do you think this comic is meant to take place in the main Sonic continuity (as it doesn’t have any specific continuity stuff in it)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 07:32, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Interesting, I hadn't heard of that comic before. Sad to see that Sonic has an unlikable personality within it as well. Also, we don't know about the continuity. Bawitdaba (talk) 14:23, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah nearly every official piece of British Sonic media has Sonic and his allies being unlikable douchebags who not only destroy badniks, but also insult them and treat them as ugly and murderous machines when Sonic is far more of a monster then they are. Not to mention the annoying and ugly animal characters who do nothing but praise Sonic and Sonic worshipping these equally as awful animal characters like they are worth killing the badniks for. Another dark thing that happens in the Sunday Strips is that Robotnik legit burns two Spikers with fireballs because they didn’t catch Sonic (yeah Robotnik abuses his own badniks which is just sad). Also I heard that the Sunday Strips are a part of the Sonic the Comic continuity, due to them giving Robotnik a redesign around the same time and being made by the same writers as StC. The only time Sonic has ever been nice in a comic was like Scrapnik Island (which is surprising considering how horrible Sonic is in lutgeeally any IDW issue), but any other Sonic comic has him being 1000x more cruel than he is already (which is saying a lot). Also you agree that the animals in Sonic (the ones released from Badniks) are extremely annoying (especially in pacifist runs)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 15:39, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah from what I'm hearing these are all messed up. Do you support Dr Robotnik over Sonic in these comics? Bawitdaba (talk) 16:55, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Kind of, but Dr. Robotnik is FAR from innocent (as sometimes in the comics he is literally shown killing his own robots if they don’t do everything perfect, and this is most evident in the amount of times Robotnik destroyed his Crabmeat lackey in early Archie and in an issue of StC showing that Robotnik has his badniks being forced to jump into lava if they don’t do exactly what he wants them to do). However, compared to Sonic and his friends, Robotnik is at least not an extremely unlikeable douchebag who does the worst things imaginable 24/7. I am mostly sympathetic towards the Badniks if you were wondering (excluding the few actually evil ones like that evil Buzz Bonber I told you about from Archie and basically all the Palmtree Panic Badniks in StC). Anyways, wanna help expand the other Burrobot appearances? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:41, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I can perhaps get to Burrobot later Bawitdaba (talk) 22:42, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Also one of the worst things that happened to the Badniks was what the Forty Fathom Freedom Fighters did to them. You should see this video and tell me what you think about the horrible atrocity that they committed. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:51, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

I'm personally not up for watching if that ok wit you (I hope it makes sense) Bawitdaba (talk) 22:53, January 19, 2023 (UTC)

Mariopedia locked

Oh ok, also I can’t edit anything on Mariopedia for some reason. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:54, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

I think that was because of the MediaWiki upgrade Bawitdaba (talk) 03:23, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

Oh, looks like it's because person infobox had that cascading turned on, affecting pages within it. I turned off the cascading; hope this helps Bawitdaba (talk) 03:24, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, also what do you think of the page I made? Anyways, wanna start doing the Burrobot stuff now? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:19, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

Too late now, perhaps tomorrow. Also, I like that Mario Collection page you made, good work (not to mention it has the obligatory Monty Mole trivia point :P). Bawitdaba (talk) 04:24, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

I was thinking of making Red Eye a page (though I think it should be given the species infobox, since multiple appear in some games like Sonic Forces). MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:59, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

Go right ahead Bawitdaba (talk) 18:08, January 22, 2023 (UTC)

Could you help add these unique Badnik variants from the Sonic Dash event in Angry Birds Epic? Also, are these the official names or just conjectural names? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:45, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah those can definitely get their own articles. I do not know the authenticity of the names, but I suppose they're accurate. Have you played Angry Birds Epic? I remember playing AB original and Angry Birds Space many years ago. Bawitdaba (talk) 03:22, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

I think I played it a long time ago, but I never played the Sonic Dash event. You cool with helping make the pages (I think we can start off with Tiny Crabmeat)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 05:36, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

How about you start creating them, seeing as you found them originally, and I revise? Bawitdaba (talk) 13:20, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

Maybe, but I personally do prefer helping rewrite pages rather than making them. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 13:42, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

Does Sonic News Network have info on those Angry Birds Badniks? Bawitdaba (talk) 13:52, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

No, but the Angry Birds wiki kind of does. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:18, January 29, 2023 (UTC)

Misconceptions

Hey, should we make a misconceptions page like what Mariopedia has? Do you know any Sonic related misconceptions? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:19, February 4, 2023 (UTC)

I suppose so, although my objection to that would be that some of it sound as if it's based on opinion. Remember that if you do create it, title "List of Sonic the Hedgehog misconceptions" because we cover Sega media here in general (although Sonic is used as the favicon & within the wiki logo). Also, no, I don't know of any in particular. Bawitdaba (talk) 04:02, February 4, 2023 (UTC)

I know the misconception of people saying the Badniks are non-sentient, despite there being evidence that they are sentient. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 06:55, February 4, 2023 (UTC)

Just wondering if you could help make an Arachbot and Zoomer page? I can help with the pages as well, but I would like you to create them first. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:50, February 21, 2023 (UTC)

Done Bawitdaba (talk) 00:18, February 22, 2023 (UTC)

Also, what do you think of what Zoomer did in IDW issue 57? Also, you agree Sonic was hypocritical when he said this (since he is literally killing the badniks and is complaining that they are not giving him two minutes for his evil friends to come in and murder them more, despite the fact that the badniks have every right to hate Sonic considering what he does to them and how he basically treats killing them as a sport and finds it amusing)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 03:43, February 22, 2023 (UTC)

I have not read those, and I already agree with your points that I think it sucks that he kills the Badniks out of sadistic desire (which I actually want to thank you for giving me a heads up on, as makes me feel it even less worth focusing on for that reason). btw I haven't forgotten about Bowser Inside Story playthrough -- I just been taking my time with that. Bawitdaba (talk) 14:28, February 22, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, if anything, the writing and Sonic’s character makes him feel like he isn’t even killing badniks for the greater good and instead is doing it because he is a sadistic monster who gets enjoyment out of destroying sentient robots (this is especially the case for the comics). Sonic also destroys other robots like the ones GUN make and the ones the Ancients made in Sonic Frontiers, so it seems like Sonic just wants to destroy any robot he sees and assume they are evil (even when they are on his side). That is why I thought what Sonic said in that leaked page for IDW issue 58 was hypocritical, cause the badniks have every right to want to kill Sonic as he literally treats them nothing but toys that he murders for fun, and yet Sonic tries to act like the victim (even though he is also killing badniks in this page). Also I knew you were still doing the BIS playthrough, so that is cool. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:20, February 22, 2023 (UTC)

What Badnik should we make a page for next (you can decide)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 07:44, March 4, 2023 (UTC)

I'm not really up for making them at the moment, although you are welcome to. Bawitdaba (talk) 18:00, March 4, 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I might make a badnik page later, but we’ll see. Also you heard how basically nearly all the "hero" characters in Sonic the Comic are legit horrible heartless sadistic monsters that the comic tries desperately to paint them as justified heroes (even though they are genuinely horrible people)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:33, March 4, 2023 (UTC)

You've told me this several times before. Bawitdaba (talk) 18:34, March 4, 2023 (UTC)

Oh ok. Could you try making a page for Scarabesque? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 06:30, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for making that page. Also, I was able to remove most of the inaccurate personality sections from the main IDW Badnik pages (though I did keep a select few personality sections like the classic badniks and Motobud for example). The funniest thing was that issue 58 basically confirmed that the badniks have emotions, so the whole mindless drones thing was likely completely made up by SNN. It was funny how even Egg Typhoon had a cringe personality section on their IDW page (despite them being shown to be sentient in their source material). You agree it is good that removed those sections? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 16:32, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, good idea for doing so Bawitdaba (talk) 17:32, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

You think the Badniks being "mindless drones" thing was just some misconception that was never stated in the IDW comics and was just made up by the people on the SNN for no reason (similar to some of the misconceptions that happened with Mario, like when people thought the Undergrunt species were exactly the same as Monty Mole)? Do you also think that the IDW comics never really attended for the badniks to be non-sentient, and as proven by issue 58, they still show emotions and stuff? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 18:45, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what else to say about Badniks, and sounds like you're repeatedly going around in circles regarding this. Bawitdaba (talk) 20:02, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, sometimes I just repeat subjects that we talk about. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:09, March 5, 2023 (UTC)

No worries, I've accidentally done the same throughout my life because I've always had a thing where I fixated on a certain thing at a given time. Bawitdaba (talk) 01:08, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah same. Anyways, you liked the improvements I made for the IDW Badnik pages (I even added an appearance of Zoomer that the page missed)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:46, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, thank you for editing those :) Bawitdaba (talk) 04:12, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

No problem, do you think I am getting to know badnik lore as much as I do with Monty Mole? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 04:44, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

I don't know -- Monty Moles have made fewer appearances than Badniks, which are the majority of enemies in the Sonic franchise. Bawitdaba (talk) 17:34, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah fair, but an interesting thing to note is that the Monty Mole species still made frequent appearances in most games (even if they weren’t in a main series game like Mario Galaxy for example). Most of the old badniks barely appeared in the mid-late 2000s Sonic games until Sonic 4 Episode 1, and even then, most games after Sonic Adventure (besides the Sonic Advance trilogy) didn’t have that classic Badnik feel (mostly for the worst in my opinion, though a few badniks in Sonic 06 and most of the ones in Unleashed are some major exceptions). What do you think? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:07, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

Yeah that's true Bawitdaba (talk) 23:14, March 6, 2023 (UTC)

Why do you think it took this long for the series to go back to using their classic Badniks? Also, any news lately? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 00:40, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

Maybe it's like how it took Mario franchise a long time before the Koopalings returned in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, or the Tanooki Leaf in Super Mario 3D Land. Also no news, no Bawitdaba (talk) 01:46, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

Badnik pages

Mind helping make Badnik pages for Mariopedia of the ones that appeared in the 2020 Tokyo one (the information can be found on Sonic News Network)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 02:16, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

Yea I can possibly get to that. Which Badniks in particular were you thinking of? I think I did Burrobot there a while ago. Bawitdaba (talk) 02:37, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

I was thinking of doing Shellcracker, oh and mind helping expand the classic appearances for the badniks that have pages that have classic versions (like Crabmeat, Burrobot, and Buzz Bomber)? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:33, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

Expand on which wiki? Bawitdaba (talk) 22:57, March 7, 2023 (UTC)

This one. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 01:49, March 8, 2023 (UTC)